apachepopups.net
Gearbox Help => Gearboxes, Lift Chains, Lift System, & Crank => Topic started by: DDLTexan on October 15, 2003, 10:02:53 AM
-
Thanks Mike!!! Mike has put together an outstanding step by step procedure for replacing lift chains. He has done it with diagrams and pictures. Anyone can with confidence replace their lift chains on their Apache. Thank you, Thank you for making this document for us to learn how to replace our chains!
Go to this link to download this document.
http://www.apachepopups.net/smf/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=1 (http://www.apachepopups.net/smf/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=1)
Then click on Chain Replacement Procedure .
Choose which directory to download to and then open in Microsoft Word and PRESTO you have all the information needed to successfully replace your chains.
Thanks again Mike for a job well done!
-
Thank you alan for sharing this with us
-
after reading over this I do see some differences between this and tim's cd.. I did find tim's cd most helpful and real easy to use. I also found alot of good tips to keep me from having to redo the lift system again.
-
after reading over this I do see some differences between this and tim's cd.. I did find tim's cd most helpful and real easy to use. I also found alot of good tips to keep me from having to redo the lift system again.
Jeff, what CD? I have Tim's Gearbox CD and there is nothing on Lift System Chain Replacement. Have you gotten a new CD? What all is on your CD?
Very curious,
-
my bad I should have been more specific..
I am referring to his new lift chain cd not his gearbox maintence CD
It was posted a couple weeks ago on his site and I have it..
-
my bad I should have been more specific..
I am referring to his new lift chain cd not his gearbox maintence CD
It was posted a couple weeks ago on his site and I have it..
Jeff, what differences did you find? Anything major or minor that would affect the changing of the chains? Anything that you see that would trip me up in changing my chains in a few months?
-
HI
I downloaded the text but for some reason the pics did not. Any Ideas?
Thanks :(
-
This post is no longer valid. Link no longer exists!
-
Thanks for your help but the pics still don't work. All that came through was the text and the pics outline and a close window icon in the corner.
Also do you recomend replacing all the lift chains at once, only one of mine broke. Thanks
-
Its up to you but here is my thoughts on it... If one broke, the others may not be too far behind and it will DEFINETLY bust when your 150 miles from home.
-
Thanks for your help but the pics still don't work. All that came through was the text and the pics outline and a close window icon in the corner.
Also do you recomend replacing all the lift chains at once, only one of mine broke. Thanks
It is good insurance for the future. If one breaks, then the others have had the same usage and it is only a matter of time. If you are going to do a replacement, then do them all and don't worry about them for another 30 years.
-
Thanks for all your help.
I guess I have alot of work ahead of me.
-
Work, but it is fun work.
It is wonderful seeing the results of your work when you restore a trailer or fix something.
-
Thanks Mike I spent most of the day trying to figure out where to start to replace my chains. This should help.
:D
-
Any questions just ask; I'm in the middle of re-stringing the chains with new cable. I only have small windows of time to work on it, with everything else going on. Should be completed by...oh, about August. :roll:
-
Is it possible to have these links updated? The Word format link is now longer operational and the HTML link has expired. Also, is this CD still available and how do I order one?
Thanks!
-
I would like to know this also. The links no longer work like Bossmaverick
said. Someday I may need to replace my chains too. What about Tims CD is it still available?? This kind of information needs to be saved for all time.
-
Is there a current web site for the pictures and info on the lift system?
Thanks.
-
Hello all you happy campers!
We're new here - but have owned our Apache Ramada for 31 years. Recent attempts by neighbors to 'salvage' our family member have been futile. We are in need of the lift system repair and pictures please. All links say they are expired. Thand you!
1st time poster -long time lurker. ::) - And now I have help to rennovate.
We are fairly certain this is the problem as passenger front will not let loose - we've tried jacking it up and putting boards in to hold the roof up - and thats where we are right now. Please HELP before hubby tears the front ABS panel off to get to the chains. ::)
-
You do not have to remove the ABS front bezel to get to the chains. Your lift problem is either the chains or gearboxes. If you've had your trailer for 31 years and not done any maintenance then you will need to work on both.
At the top of this page you will see a link to Apache Sales. Click on it and and then click on original parts. They have a manual to buy or download for free that includes how to replace your chains. you very likely have the old style gearboxs with plastic small tooth gears. The small gears round over in time and the gear starts slipping. Also remember those chains are more then 30 years old, probably have rusty cables or broken cables and need to be replaced. I would get the information you need before you tackle this job. Apache Sales has the new gearboxes and lift chains for sale if you decide to go that way.
Tim Schaefer has CD's on lift chain removal and replacement and Gearbox maintenance. You can get ahold of him at the other Apache site, also at the top of this page called
Apacheowners.com Good Luck with your lift system.
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/gregcolleen/Gearbox_Assembly_1971_1987sized.jpg?)
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/gregcolleen/Gear_teeth.jpg?t=1209152221)
-
???Hi, I was wondering if you could help my friend out. We replaced a chain on the rear right side and now the rear road cover won't close all the way. We have the gear boxes out and when you push down on one side it pushes up the other side? Possibly old pieces of chain left from our repair? Thanks
-
A piece of broken chain link link could be the answer, if a broken link is still in the track it could push up the roadcover on the other side when nearing fully down, not much clearance for any extra floating links.
Also it is always advisable to replace both chains on the same end at the same time ie in pairs if one shows signs of trouble, remember some of these campers still camping may have the original chains in there 30 years or more, quite a testament to the design but nothing lasts forever without care.
If one chain needed replacing it's a fair bet the other is also rusted or stretched and having 2 chains with different tensions will cause problems, in short the other chain may now have a broken cable and the links are now causing interference with the new chain.
Best to pull both chains for inspection and track cleaning.
-
Trailman, thank you so much for the help. I will give this a try. John
-
I clicked on this link and it can up page on found. I really need this info as I am having a problem with one side of my Ramada not wanting to lift all the way. Is there another way I can get to this information? Thanks!
Here's the link to Apache Sales-- http://www.apachecampertrailers.com/
If your looking for the repair manual Apache Sales should have it. There is also alot of information on this site about lift chains and gearboxes.
Sounds like you might have a chain problem on that side. It might help if you could tell us the year and if it has had any maintenance on the lift system in the last few years.
-
Sorry to say but URL not found :'(
-
I just went to it three times using Redwoods link. Try it again.
-
Can you tell me where I can get a rear gearbox and chains for a 1972 Apache Ramada. I live on the West Coast in Canada and am finding parts suppliers hard to find except for one in Thornhill Ontario and their one and only parts guy has taken off for awhile and NO one else there can help with getting the parts for me.
-
These are the only places I know to check other than Ebay and craigslist.
http://www.apachecampertrailers.com/
http://home.interlog.com/~apache/apacheptsman.htm
http://crouchcampers.com/index.html
http://www.popupparts.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_7&zenid=b83e616d97b428747bf5d0d1b5492af2
I thought I had another place but was unable to find it. Hopefully someone else has some suggestions.
-
I just went to it three times using Redwoods link. Try it again.
I have tried the links on two different computers and I still am getting URL not found! :'( Is it a browser issue? I use Mozilla
-
I am using Firefox. Is anyone else having trouble with the posted links?
-
Cecil, I can access all of the links without any problem.
-
Thanks jg appreciate it, jdp sounds like the problem is on your end.
-
I am using Firefox. Is anyone else having trouble with the posted links?
Yup. Using Firefox also and getting the same thing.
-
Finally got the road cover up and things aren't always as they appear to be. The chain that was laying outside the front tube bottom is in very good shape. The one left inside (pic) is a mess. That's one chain going to need replacing. We'll see what the back ones look like tomorrow.
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/MIEric_photos/DSC00163.jpg?t=1255923901)
-
I still can not get the link to open for this. 404 error page not found ???
-
First off I should say perhaps I made a mistake when I pass worded my photopucket account. I'll psot the link so if someone can't get to it please let me know and I'll try to correct it.
Got the Ramada up for our first time this weekend. It was a bear without any of the lift system in operation. Took 5 people to do it without breaking something. With that firmly in (my) mind I don't want to take it back down until I've got the lift system firmly in place. Ergo my questions that follow.
I don't know what the bars on each side of the gear boxes are called but as can be seen by the photo one bolt is broken off (by a previous owner). As long as one needs replacing I might as well replace all of them with SS. What is the best and/or easiest way to expose the lift chain tubes? By removing the bezels or can they be exposed by removing the interior end walls? I see the screws on the walls and assume they (walls) can just be removed. Or do I have to go to the extent of removing the forward and aft bezels? If so are there any photos available on how to go about that? I've got the diagrams on the lift system but none on how it is integrated into the camper.
To go along with that; there are 6 chain links missing from the bad chain I pulled. I've pulled a mineral spirits soaked rag attached to a wire fish through the (forward) channels and all I got was a piece of the chain mount (photo). No chain links though. A few more runs of that should clean up the inside quite well...I would think.
As to stability of the camper while getting this lift system repaired. Seems I've read to not remove all the chains at one time for stability concerns. True? I would like to discover the condition of all the chains so I know how many I need. If I need more than the one it doesn't look like I'm going to be able to get the chains for a couple of weeks. Would the camper be stable enough (in the up) position with all the chains removed?
Thanks for the help.
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/MIEric_photos/th_DSC00174.jpg)
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/MIEric_photos/th_DSC00177.jpg)
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/MIEric_photos/th_DSC00178.jpg)
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/MIEric_photos/th_DSC00180.jpg)
http://s786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/MIEric_photos/ (http://s786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/MIEric_photos/)
-
Hi Go to home page Clik on ABS issues clik page 8 count down 10 to How to remove the front bazel on a 73 ramada Hope this helps
-
MIEric, Here's what you find when you remove the bezel. Here's the link on how to remove the bezel. http://www.apachepopups.net/smf/index.php?topic=411.0 (http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/gregcolleen/72ramadarehab2.jpg?t=1255983264)
-
norton-villier and Redwood, thanks for the very rapid replies. As I'm thinking about this, with much help from the photo, I may just see about getting the lift system repaired before I get to freezing my poor little finners off and wait to remove the bezel in the better weather of spring. We'll see how it all goes weather wise.
May I bother you again though. What about the stability issue of having all the chains removed?
Hum, maybe just pulling the tube extensions up and Red Greening them in place (duct tape) would add to stability sway wise? Seems like the walls up with the road cover in place will take care of the gravity issue.
-
Eric, removing the bezel will not reveal what you see in that pic, there is more dismantling to do to get what is shown in that photo, never had mine apart to that extent but remember reading that bit where that pic was posted originally.
-
Den is right now that I think back on the post I remember it saying that too. Thanks Den, I don't want to mislead anyone. :-[
By the way Eric that is a nice looking Ramada you have . (http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/MIEric_photos/DSC00174.jpg)
-
Thanks guys. I appreciate it.
Thanks Redwood. I'm just glad I haven't got as much to do as some I have seen on here. Lots of little bothersome stuff to do but I think these little jewels are worth the effort.
Got a question about the door too. Wondering if it (seeming) so out of kilter is normal...or I'm just being fussy. I'll post a pic tomorrow after I take it.
-
i could not download this link, this their anything else out there
-
i could not download this link, this their anything else out there
I'm here now, what do you need?...if I can help.
-
Great information on this forum.
The links aren't working for me. Anyone else have this problem at the moment?
-
yes I don't know if I am missing something but most of the links that would really help me out don't seem to work.
-
Some links work for me, others dont.
-
Alan-DDLTexan, Greg-Redwood, or anyone else who can help,
The link for the step-by-step download is not working for me. I definitely need some help. I began to try to remove lift chains for replacement late this afternoon and have run into a snag, perhaps literally.
I have the front bezel removed. It does not look like picture of the front bezel removed I've seen elsewhere on the site. The Apache being worked on in those pictures looks like a 77 or 78 green so it is a later model and inside the bezel probably changed from 1973.
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z393/RickERM08/73%20Apache%20Repairs/January_21_2012047.jpg)
The gearbox has been dropped and I can see the ends of the chains. I removed three rivets at the top of the riser (is this what you call the extrusion?). I cannot seem to get the riser with the chain inside to move much at all. What do I need to do? Should I remove more rivets and screws to get the cover off the chain track? Should I just lube the risers with silicone and keep working it? Thoughts? Any thoughts by mid-day 1-22 would be great so I can pick up work on it tomorrow.
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z393/RickERM08/73%20Apache%20Repairs/January_21_2012056.jpg)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z393/RickERM08/73%20Apache%20Repairs/January_21_2012058.jpg)
-
are there new links for the links? they no longer work
-
Alan-DDLTexan, Greg-Redwood, or anyone else who can help,
The link for the step-by-step download is not working for me. I definitely need some help. I began to try to remove lift chains for replacement late this afternoon and have run into a snag, perhaps literally.
I have the front bezel removed. It does not look like picture of the front bezel removed I've seen elsewhere on the site. The Apache being worked on in those pictures looks like a 77 or 78 green so it is a later model and inside the bezel probably changed from 1973.
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z393/RickERM08/73%20Apache%20Repairs/January_21_2012047.jpg)
The gearbox has been dropped and I can see the ends of the chains. I removed three rivets at the top of the riser (is this what you call the extrusion?). I cannot seem to get the riser with the chain inside to move much at all. What do I need to do? Should I remove more rivets and screws to get the cover off the chain track? Should I just lube the risers with silicone and keep working it? Thoughts? Any thoughts by mid-day 1-22 would be great so I can pick up work on it tomorrow.
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z393/RickERM08/73%20Apache%20Repairs/January_21_2012056.jpg)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z393/RickERM08/73%20Apache%20Repairs/January_21_2012058.jpg)
Rick,
I'm on my way to pick up my granddaughter at the airport so I don't have much time. But read over the information in this manual. Check pages 5 and 6. I'll check with you when I get back. By the way the picture you are referring to has the metal plate removed from over the chain tracks. You need to remove the stops between the upper and middle extrusion. The upper extrusion or chain attached to it, will not come out without removing the stops. ;)
http://www.apachecampertrailers.com/67-86%20liftsystem.pdf
-
Rick,
Did you get the chains out?? Here is the picture I believe you were talking about. The top of the chain track has been removed. Bezel doesn't need to be removed to remove the chains. But it is interesting to see what's behind it.
(http://www.apachepopups.net/SMF/MGalleryItem.php?id=535)
-
We just bought a 74 Ramada everything in it is solid but we are having issues with the lift. When we raise it one corner seems to be in a bind then when we bring it down that corner gets down first and leaves the other three corners up a bit. You can keep cranking which I'm sure is bad or it pops a little and the other corners come down a little. So I am looking for information on what i should do first to correct this problem
-
i would drop the boxes make sure the roof is supported and then check the chains see if there is any plat betwen the links if so time to replace them while you have the boxes off would be a good time to clean and grease them
-
So i can get to the chains from the gearbox i thought i would have to do something similar to the post above
-
there is a hole were you can stick a screwdriver in there to move them some to see if they are streched you cant get to the hole chain
-
So i can get to the chains from the gearbox i thought i would have to do something similar to the post above
You can See the chains from the gearbox opening but to remove them you would have to disconnect the lift extrusions/arms from the road cover and remove a few plastic stops.
You may be able to get an idea of the chain condition from the gearbox opening.
You have a similar situation as me when I first got my Apache. I refurbished my lift system with a new gearbox and 4 new chains. Works great now.
-
We just bought a 74 Ramada everything in it is solid but we are having issues with the lift. When we raise it one corner seems to be in a bind then when we bring it down that corner gets down first and leaves the other three corners up a bit. You can keep cranking which I'm sure is bad or it pops a little and the other corners come down a little. So I am looking for information on what i should do first to correct this problem
One possibility would be that you have the old style gearboxes and the plastic inner gears are starting to slip. That would cause a popping sound and also throw it out of time as yours sounds to be. Remove the back gearbox and take it apart (Follow the directions on gearbox primer) If you have the plastic inner gears then check if any of them are rounded over. It doesn't take much to start it slipping when cranking. Here is a picture of the old style gearbox with rounded over inner gears. (http://www.apachepopups.net/SMF/MGalleryItem.php?id=3349) (http://www.apachepopups.net/SMF/MGalleryItem.php?id=3348)
-
Thanks for all the great information i am going to start on the gear box. Seeing how all this is very new for me you all will probably hear several more questions
-
Ask all the questions you want. Starting on the gearboxes is a great idea. They still have to be cleaned and geased and no matter what the lift issues turn out to be these are all jobs that have to be done. Good Luck. :)
-
Well I i got one of the gearboxes totally disassembled now the trick will be getting it back together the right way. Does any have a suggestion on the best type of grease to use when i am putting it back together
-
I like to use White Lithium Grease. Grease in the tube not the spray can. When you disassembled your gearbox did you read up on the gearbox primer in the forum before you took it apart. Keeping all the parts in order is important to be able to reassemble them in the right way. ;)
-
Hello, have a question on whether or not to replace lift chains. Have owned a 1977 Roamer for about 10 years and last couple years have had increased resistance when cranking it up. WD40 on the telescopes has helped but still not cranking as easy as it used to. Only use twice a year so dirt build up may be the cause, but not likely. Any thoughts on how to resolve are much appreciated. Thanks much for posting these pictures and procedures. John
-
Hi John. When was the last time you cleaned and lubed your gearboxes? If it's been awhile (or never) that's where I would start.
-
Also, you should not use WD40 as it will collect dirt. Use a dry silicone spray if you can find it. If not, regular silicone is better then nothing!
-
Hello, have a question on whether or not to replace lift chains. Have owned a 1977 Roamer for about 10 years and last couple years have had increased resistance when cranking it up. WD40 on the telescopes has helped but still not cranking as easy as it used to. Only use twice a year so dirt build up may be the cause, but not likely. Any thoughts on how to resolve are much appreciated. Thanks much for posting these pictures and procedures. John
John, I would say clean and lube the gearboxes too. I think you will be surprised when you're done.
-
I learned a dirty little secret about WD40 way back in my college days working at KMart. WD40 leaves film with added firing of a gun, you can get a bullet jammed in the barrow. Don't use WD40 on the telescope poles for this reason.
Why do gun stores sell WD40 for guns. Great for cleaning guns, but you need a cleaner for the WD40 removal. WD40 highly profitable!!!!!!!!!!
The silicone spray is the way to go.
-
Thanks for the advice. Will plan to take apart the gearboxes this weekend.
-
Hello all, so ive looked at the post in this forum, and none of them seem to work. I cant find the how to replace lift cahins "how to", does this still exist? when might i find this dvd that is mentioned?
I have a 76 royal that has a saggy corner, the front lifts great and so does the left rear corner, but the right rear corner doesn't lift.
Also to replace it should the road cover be raised or down?
Thanks for any help
-
Magnia503,
It's true some of those old post don't work anymore. Many of them are five and six years old and the site has been redone several times since then. You can buy the CD on chain replacement from Tim Schaeffer at a1signsurveys@wowway.com It's a very helpful CD and it has lots of pictures too. To me it sounds like one of your chains is broken. To replace it you will need the road cover in the up position. It needs to be up so you can remove the rivets that hold the lift arm to the road cover, also you may end up breaking some of the bolts that hold the gearboxes on and they are easier to replace with the road cover up. The Road cover will need to sit on the side walls and also be secured with some 2 x 4s so there's no chance of the road cover coming done while you're working on the lift system.
The chains need to be replaced in pairs. So you can't just replace one broken chain, if you install a new chain on one end of the trailer you need to replace both chains on that end of the trailer, that's because the tension on the new and old chain would be different and wouldn't lift at the same rate. Another thing is to check both ends chains because if the chains are stretched out they will not operate right with the gearboxes. Many times you will need new chains on both sides of your trailer. Some say to only buy new chains but I have been making rebuilt chains for several years now with never a problem.
The gearboxes will need to be cleaned and lubed or even possibly replaced depending on whether or not you have the old style boxes and they slip or have rounded over plastic inner gears. Yours may still work for awhile if you take care of them or they may be shot already. The only way to know for sure is to open them up and look at the plastic inner gears. If they're even slightly rounded over then they need to be replaced. Apache Parts sells a set of two new gearboxes and four new chains for $600.00 dollars and after installing them your trailers lift system would be good for 30 years if you take care of the gearboxes. Two new gearboxes by themselves are $300.00 dollars. The chains by themselves are $90.00 dollars each. Apache Parts web site is http://www.apachecampertrailers.com/ (http://www.apachecampertrailers.com/) so I guess you have many things to consider but one thing for sure is you have to pull the chains to see their condition and the gearboxes too, that way you will have a better idea what you have ahead of you in repairs.
I want to tell you that most people who buy an Apache trailer go through this with the lift system. But once you get it repaired or replaced then you're good for many years to come. Our web site is pretty slow in the winter but there are a few of us here and we are willing to help you through this repair. We have talked many folks through the repair of their lift system. ;) So you're not along here, just ask any and all the questions you have and were glad to help. ;) By the way I see you have two trailers, which one are you trying to fix the lift system on the Royal or the Mesa? Take Care, Greg/Redwood
Here is a picture of the plastic inner gears, the ones with the very sharp little gear teeth. (http://www.apachepopups.net/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=548)
Here is a picture of the new style gearbox with the large aluminum teeth.
(http://www.apachepopups.net/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=539) (http://www.apachepopups.net/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=540)
And here is a diagram of the gearbox and where to grease and where not to.
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/gregcolleen/813c5747-49ee-4339-a453-0f26a8a053e5_zps6ecd60f2.jpg) (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/gregcolleen/media/813c5747-49ee-4339-a453-0f26a8a053e5_zps6ecd60f2.jpg.html)
-
Thank
s for the info, looks like ill get stated next week on this..
do you have a post on rebuilding the chains? or a how to?
The broken chain in question is on the royal....
-
I'm sure there's info on other members rebuilding their own in the Forum under chains. PM sent. Good Luck :)